Sort Fields in iTunes 7.1

Comments

Nice understandable guide, thanks Paul.

But I've always thought it better to sort artists by first name anyway. It seems more consistent, otherwise you end up with sorting by "last name unless they only have a single name". eg Madonna is always going to be sorted by first name whatever your policy.

Unless one adds 'Ciccone, Madonna' in the Sort Field I guess...
I thought I had the word "niche" in the article somewhere, but it turns out not to be there. Personally, though, I won't be changing all my artists to last-name sorting. For example, if it's "Cave, Nick", what about "Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds"? It's a big horrible can of worms and no mistake, and I completely understand why it's never been tackled before.

I've made a small edit based on a correction about ID3 tagging; it turns out sort order is written after all. Which is nice.
[das ist gut]
Worth knowing that the MusicBrainz tagger "Picard" (http://musicbrainz.org/) will write Sort Fields that iTunes honours, so Paul's "Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds" would be sorted under "Cave, Nick and Bad Seeds, the".
Ooh, I didn't know that. The fact that there's a standard you can look up is even better. Obviously it's time for me to look at the Musicbrainz project again.
[this is good]
I've wanted this feature for years, and hadn't realized they'd even implemented it! Now that I've started in on it, of course, I find I'm not quite as sure that I wanted it, but that might just be because it still looks foreign and strange. Also, yeah, they *really* need to work on the UI for this, tagging multiple tracks at once is next to impossible.
[this is good]
id3v2 2.4 defined TSOP, TSOA and TSOT (performer, album and title) sort-by fields. iTunes supports those as well as a TSO2 (album-artist sort-by, in parallel with their (& Windows Music Player v.recent) use of TPE2 ("Band/orchestra/accompaniment") for "album artist". It looks like iTunes also supports a non-standard 'TSOC' for composers, in parallel with its non-standard 'TCOM'.

Based on 'strings -' output and limited experimentation, iTunes seems to support those tags even in files that claim to be using id3v2 2.3, and supports "TSP, "TSA", "TST", "TS2" and "TSC" for id3v2 2.2.

I've been maintaining artist collation information all along, for use in my home-grown mp3 web interface and my hacked up version of slimserver. It's very nice indeed to finally have sorting working in iTunes & my iPods.
Does the sorting apply to iPods? I haven't really got that far with checking things.

Thanks for the forensics on the ID3 tags, though. I didn't have the inclination to go through and figure out what they all were, but it's great to have it documented somewhere.
This is all very nice, but I'm not sure I will be making use of it for the same reasons mentioned in other people's comments. What I'd *really* like (I've wanted for ages), is a field so I can add tags to my tunes. That way I can create groups for "work", or "car", or "party" etc. Presently I use the "grouping" field which seems to work fairly well, however it would be nice to have the feature correctly implemented.
[this is good]
The iTunes windows version is a little buggy... In the "Get Info" dialog if you change the "Sort Artist" field it will change your artist field. And also the "Apply sort field does not work at all. Dreadful...

To work around this you can edit sorting artist in the columns view.

Other uses for this are albuns that have a featuring artist. i.e. I have Uakti discography's and one CD is from "Uakti & Tabinha", but I wanted the album sorted chronologically with Uakti's albums. Nice solution from Apple. =)

Many thanks for the nice article, I wasn't able to understand the feature myself when I found the "Apply sort field" context menu.

Yes, it does work w/ iPods. I checked it on several different worship compilations and they appear under "Various Artists" and show the track artists when the album is playing.

This feature makes me very happy!

Thank you sooooo much for explaining everything... I was confused about it!

Indeed, there's a big demand out there for tags (amongst geeks, at least), and (ab)using Grouping (or Comment) isn't really the best way to do this. I don't think there's an official field in the spec for this, but I doubt Apple would mind a non-standard extension if they wanted it badly enough.
I have an 80gb video ipod, and it's still not going to be big enough for the player, but I have a huge backup drive just for music.
where the hell is the rest of my post? again...
I have an 80gb video ipod, and it's still not going to be big enough for the player, but I have a huge backup drive just for music. I installed Itunes right into the external HD.

What I am having a problem is, is with the browser, of course. I would really like to simply see the artist name only, and not all the songs. Find the artist name and click on it to see the songs by that artist.

For example, 10,000 Maniacs is the first artist in the list... and when I open itunes, the entire screen is all maniacs. It would be so much easier to browse if the artists where grouped as the link for their songs.

Is there a way to do this? Or do I not make sense?


END
Is there a way to add a new "global" sort prefix such as the default "the" and "a"? For example I'd like all of the artists named "DJ Whatever" to be sorted by the part after the DJ.

With your guide I can finally do that, but it will still take a while to set up...
What I want to do is set up iTunes so that discographies for artists will be sorted chronologically on my iPod... I can go through and change each sort field, but then it will do funny things when try and put the albums in alphabetical order... Does anyone have a solution to this?
[this is good]

"On the other hand, as far as I know, no other major music library manager application has attempted to solve this problem before, and the underlying infrastructure is fairly sound. I just hope that there's a chance to apply a little UI polish in the future."

http://www.albumplayer.com/

AlbumPlayer has sorting by artist solved -- the best I've seen. They have a separate database of artists.

They really have

Oh my God, thank you! I looked through three different Mac manuals and various Help and Support groups to try and address this problem. I'm not sure I want to implement it, but at least now I know what's going on. Mac's Manual stating "for example you could sort by last name instead of first" but neglecting to tell you how to do it is the kind of thing that makes me want to through my computer out the window.
[this is good]
awesome, i was fighting with a couple of albums that don't have the song number in the file name. this way i can just "sort name" them 1, 2, 3, etc. and apply sort field (now in the context menu, can't find it in the advanced menu).

cheers.

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Paul Mison
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